[KIDS] comparison of KIDS to SDSS photometry

Gijs Verdoes Kleijn verdoes at astro.rug.nl
Fri Nov 30 12:46:57 CET 2012


Dear all,

I have assembled photometric homogeneity table as part of the release note:
http://wiki.astro-wise.org/projects:kids:data_deliveries:internaldelivery2.0#photometric_calibration
I think column 3 can now be replaced with your results.
That is more informative than current content: stdev in offsets of KiDS 
vs SDSS for coadd as a whole.

Is MAD(running median) representative (i.e., free of measurement error) 
to quote?

Best wishes, Gijs
ps. I think the flatness allows us to proudly zoom in on +/-0.1 in your 
plotting.

On 11/30/2012 12:09 PM, Francesco La Barbera wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Konrad Kuijken 
> <kuijken at strw.leidenuniv.nl <mailto:kuijken at strw.leidenuniv.nl>> wrote:
>
>     Hi all,
>
>     indeed amazingly flat plots, Francesco!
>     I suppose the conclusion from this is that we shouldn't use
>     petroMags for comparing stellar magnitudes, and that our coadd
>     photometry is pretty flat now.
>
>
> Yup, these are my conclusions too, Jelte !
> In any case, let's wait to hear also from Mario on Monday morning. We 
> should stick at using petromags for galaxies and psfmags for stars, 
> measuring KIDS mags accordingly. This is also crucial to properly 
> characterize the color terms.
>
> Cheers,
> Francesco
>
>     Cheers,
>     Jelte
>
>
>     On 30/11/12 11:35, Francesco La Barbera wrote:
>>     Hi All,
>>
>>     this is a "quick" test, showing the delta(mag) stacked plots
>>     (i.e. overplotting all 13 fields),
>>     when one adopts PSFmags from SDSS and KIDSCAT large-diameter
>>     (8'') apertures.
>>     I used the SDSS-KIDS matched catalogs produced by Mario.
>>     I didn't plot single values but only binned trends. The x- and
>>     y-scales are the same as in previous plots.
>>     Amazing how the 2.5deg patterns disappear!! Although in some
>>     cases (e.g. magenta curve for g-band comparison), you can see
>>     some trend, we should consider (IMHO) that PSFmags can still be
>>     affected by systematics of the order of 0.01-0.02mag, and we are
>>     using an arbitrarely(!) large aperture for KIDS data. Measuring
>>     mags in the same (large) apertures would possibly solve any
>>     residual aperture effect.
>>     BTW, the amplitude of the trends is amazingly small !!
>>
>>     Cheers,
>>     Francesco
>>
>>
>>
>>     On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Konrad Kuijken
>>     <kuijken at strw.leidenuniv.nl <mailto:kuijken at strw.leidenuniv.nl>>
>>     wrote:
>>
>>         Hi all,
>>         Beautiful work! Jelte and I looked at the plots yesterday and
>>         indeed concluded that the step functions correspond to the
>>         size of the Sloan chips. The pattern in iband is 2.5 deg
>>         wide, exactly the width of a stripe in Sloan. Two interleaved
>>         exposures, six chips with large gaps each, similar to a 1d
>>         version of the paw print pattern in vista, would give the
>>         step pattern you find.
>>
>>         One thing to check: does the effect show up if you use Sloan
>>         psf magnitudes? Petrosian mags might be a little seeing
>>         dependent, psf mags should be optimal if they have done their
>>         analysis right.
>>
>>         Thanks
>>         Konrad
>>
>>
>>         On 29 Nov 2012, at 12:15, Jelte de Jong
>>         <jelte at strw.leidenuniv.nl <mailto:jelte at strw.leidenuniv.nl>>
>>         wrote:
>>
>>>         Hi Francesco and all,
>>>
>>>         since I was quite intrigued by the strange offsets in the
>>>         SDSS vs. KiDS comparison for stars (and not for galaxies), I
>>>         had a look at the DR8 data in the area of the 10 contiguous
>>>         tiles in INT-DR2.
>>>         The problem here is of course that we need an independent
>>>         calibrator that we are certain is constant over the
>>>         field-of-view, and the obvious thing to me seemed to be the
>>>         stellar locus.
>>>
>>>         Here is what I did:
>>>         - downloaded the DR8 petroMag data for stars for (183.5 < RA
>>>         < 186.5) and (-2 < DEC < +2)
>>>         - applied extinction correction (using values included in DR8)
>>>         - calculated the principle colors
>>>         (FYI: from Ivezic et al, 2004, AN, 325, 583
>>>         p2s = -0.249*u0 + 0.794*g0 - 0.555*r0 + 0.234
>>>         p2w = -0.227*g0 + 0.792*r0 - 0.567*i0 + 0.050
>>>         p2x = 0.707*g0 - 0.707*r0 -0.988
>>>         p1s = 0.910*u0 - 0.495*g0 - 0.415*r0 - 1.28
>>>         p1w = 0.928*g0 - 0.556*r0 - 0.372*i0 - 0.425
>>>         p1x = 1.0*r0 - 1.0*i0
>>>         )
>>>         - for the stars with r(petro,SDSS)<18 plotted the principle
>>>         colors p2s, p2w and p2x (using only the part of the stellar
>>>         locus that is vertical in these colors, e.g. see
>>>         http://wiki.astro-wise.org/projects:kids:photometry#sdss-style_principle_colors)
>>>
>>>         In the p2s and p2x projections I couldn't see anything
>>>         specific, but in p2w there does seem to be a variation,
>>>         corresponding to the same offsets seen in the plots
>>>         Francesco sent around.
>>>         The attached plot shows the p2w color vs. DEC for three
>>>         different RA bins (middle panel is full RA range, top is
>>>         low-RA half and bottom is high-RA half of the area), with a
>>>         running mean plotted in red.
>>>         I hope you can see (squinting might help ;) there is a
>>>         'modulation' in the top and middle panel, and the 'phase' of
>>>         it agrees with the offsets in the SDSS vs. KiDS comparison!
>>>         It seems this effect is stronger at RA between 183.5 and
>>>         185, and is weaker (or absent) at RA between 185 and 186.5;
>>>         @Francesco: is this confirmed by the SDSS vs. KiDS comparison?
>>>
>>>         My interpretation on why this is only obvious in the p2w
>>>         color and not in p2s and p2x, is that the 'problem' is
>>>         strongest in i-band (the offsets in Mario+Francesco's plots
>>>         seems larger in i than in the other filters) and p2w is the
>>>         only principle color that depends on i.
>>>         Also, the fact that the effect is very small in p2w (~1 %)
>>>         is probably because the calibration problem occurs in all
>>>         SDSS filters, meaning that the colors are almost not affected.
>>>
>>>         Perhaps there are other ways in which to go deeper into
>>>         this, but right now I'm not sure exactly how. Perhaps
>>>         another independent calibrator can be used... QSO's or
>>>         something?
>>>
>>>         In any case I have the feeling that the offsets we see might
>>>         very well be due to a calibration issue in SDSS, or at least
>>>         in the SDSS petroMags for stars.
>>>
>>>         Cheers,
>>>         Jelte
>>>
>>>         On 28/11/12 10:21, Francesco La Barbera wrote:
>>>>         Dear All,
>>>>
>>>>         I  summarize  here  the  comparison  of KIDS  to  SDSS
>>>>          photometry  we
>>>>         (Mario+me) have performed so far for  the 52 coadds of KIDS
>>>>         INTR2. All
>>>>         plots are included in the attached archive.
>>>>
>>>>         Mario has  also performed a  comparison to CFHTLS  as well
>>>>         as  a first
>>>>         attempt to characterize of color terms using SDSS and
>>>>         CFHTLS data, but
>>>>         I'm not going to include it in  here (we didn't have much
>>>>         time to look
>>>>         at it in detail, so far).
>>>>
>>>>         We have matched the KIDSCAT catalogs to SDSS DR8,
>>>>         separating stars and
>>>>         galaxies according to SDSS classification.
>>>>
>>>>         The plots
>>>>
>>>>         sdss_${SOURCE}_${BAND}_${FIELD}_full_DR8.png
>>>>
>>>>         show differences  in magnitude as a  function of RA  (upper
>>>>         panel) and
>>>>         DEC (lower panel), where
>>>>         SOURCES -> gal/st refer to galaxies and stars, respectively
>>>>         BAND -> ugri
>>>>         FIELD -> f135 plots the three fields with RA~131, 135, and 139
>>>>                  f185 plots the ten fields with RA~184, 185, and 186
>>>>
>>>>         We  are using  petromags  from  SDSS (for  both  stars and
>>>>          galaxies).
>>>>         KIDSCAT  mags have  been  interpotaled to  match  the SDSS
>>>>          4xPetroRad
>>>>         (diameter) aperture  for each object.   Lines are running
>>>>          medians for
>>>>         different bands/pointings (the u-band comparison for
>>>>         galaxies is quite
>>>>         meaningless,  considering the  low S/N  of SDSS  u-band
>>>>          data). Median
>>>>         KIDS-SDSS offsets have been subtracted off for each field.
>>>>
>>>>         On  average, the  agreement is  good, with  no  significant
>>>>         variations
>>>>         (larger than a few cenths of  mags) across the fields. This
>>>>         is further
>>>>         shown in the attached plots
>>>>
>>>>         cmp_${BAND}band_phot_ra_dec_${SOURCES}_errmag0.05.jpg
>>>>
>>>>         where
>>>>
>>>>         BAND->ugri
>>>>         SOURCES-> stars/galaxies
>>>>
>>>>         plotting magntiude  differences as a function  of RA and
>>>>          DEC with all
>>>>         fields overplotted (after subtracting off the RA and DEC of
>>>>         each coadd
>>>>         center).   Median magnitude  offsets have  been removed
>>>>          (as  done for
>>>>         previous  plots),  and  only   objects  with  better  SDSS
>>>>          photometry
>>>>         (petroerr_mag<0.05mag) have been  selected. Circles plot
>>>>         all available
>>>>         sources (for  all 13  coadds in each  band). Curves  are
>>>>         median-binned
>>>>         trends (each bin including the same number of objects),
>>>>         with different
>>>>         colors corresponding to different  fields. Notice that the
>>>>         u-band plot
>>>>         for galaxies is not included, for the reasons mentioned above.
>>>>
>>>>         Finally, the plots
>>>>
>>>>         off_${BAND}band_phot_ra_dec_${SOURCES}_errmag0.05.jpg
>>>>
>>>>         show  the distribution  of median  magnitude  offsets for
>>>>          all the  13
>>>>         fields available in  each band.  In general, the
>>>>          distributions have a
>>>>         width  of a  few cenths  of mags,  but in  one  case
>>>>         (KIDS_185.0_-0.5,
>>>>         g-band) there is a large offset of ~0.1mag. We think it's
>>>>         important to
>>>>         investigate why this happened.
>>>>
>>>>         I'm also  attaching two tables  (produced by Mario,
>>>>         hopefully  in wiki
>>>>         format)  summarizing the  the median  offsets, mad,  and
>>>>         peak  to peak
>>>>         amplitudes  in RA  and DEC  (to have  an upper  value to
>>>>          the internal
>>>>         photometric accuracy):
>>>>
>>>>         ov_sdss_gals.tab
>>>>         ov_sdss_stars.tab
>>>>
>>>>         If  necessary, I can  provide further  details/info on  the
>>>>         comparison
>>>>         during today's teleconf. We'll try to put all this material
>>>>         on the wiki as
>>>>         soon as possible.
>>>>
>>>>         Cheers,
>>>>         Francesco & Mario
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>         KiDS mailing list
>>>>         KiDS at astro-wise.org  <mailto:KiDS at astro-wise.org>
>>>>         http://listman.astro-wise.org/mailman/listinfo/kids
>>>
>>>         -- 
>>>         Dr. Jelte T. A. de Jong
>>>         Sterrewacht Leiden
>>>         Leiden University, Leiden, the Netherlands
>>>         E:jelte at strw.leidenuniv.nl  <mailto:jelte at strw.leidenuniv.nl>
>>>         T:+31-(0)715275818  <tel:%2B31-%280%29715275818>
>>>         W:jelte.jdejong.net  <http://jelte.jdejong.net>
>>>         <DR8_p2w.eps>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         KiDS mailing list
>>>         KiDS at astro-wise.org <mailto:KiDS at astro-wise.org>
>>>         http://listman.astro-wise.org/mailman/listinfo/kids
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
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>>         KiDS at astro-wise.org <mailto:KiDS at astro-wise.org>
>>         http://listman.astro-wise.org/mailman/listinfo/kids
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
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|dr Gijs Verdoes Kleijn         |   astronomer                     |
|e-mail: verdoes at astro.rug.nl   |   OmegaCEN / Kapteyn Institute / |
|www: www.astro.rug.nl/~verdoes |   Target                         |
|tel: +31-50-3638326            |   University of Groningen        |
|mobile: +31-654658050          |   postal address:                |
|                               |   Kapteyn Astronomical Institute |
|                               |   Postbus 800, 9700 AV, Groningen|
|                               |   The Netherlands                |
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